CCKW - What you talk about is a major part of the problem. The thing is, they are people mind set and world view. Its how they are taught is ok, or what is normal. We want the change now, but we have to teach the younger generations how to change, rather then passing on our bad habits and continuing the cycle. RE: those apples I am wondering if there would be a colour change due to growing conditions, specifically if organically grown fruit has had the level of difference as I showed in the pic above. Bamboo Rabbit - Its up in the air it seems. There are too many variables to think of to get proper controlled experiments. I dont think its safe to say it is or isnt more nutritious yet. I personally assume organic should be more, if a little, but thats my thoughts, not something that i read in a paper :P Drew - I think many advocates of organic dont understand that there are differences between some agro chemicals. There is a difference between the sulfer we use to acidify the soil and petroleum based fertilizers and sprays. The differences (As far as I know, and please correct me if im wrong) between the sulfer and the petroleum products are the source. I believe the sulfer we use is naturally occuring, where as the nitrogen fertilizer we use is usually based on oil byproducts. The oil industry has its own stigmas, problems and bias which translates to the agro chemicals made from them. I definitely prefer soluble fertilizer for all of my indoor potted plants. The soil leeches nutrients too fast, and if you dont supplement with something then you have to repot or top dress the plant quite often. I use seaweed fert mixed to 1 tsp per gallon, and add 1/4 dose 20-20-20.

I'm not quite sure what is the point of this thread. In this one meta analysis, they reviewed 343 previous studies done, examining and measuring nutritional content of organic vs non organic vegetables. Is that right? Yet, after 343 studies done, they still find very little difference in the nutritional value of both groups. No difference that would actually support recommending one over the other for nutritional content. After 343 studies. That to me is a very large waste of time and money to do that many studies when the first 50 probably told you all you needed to know. I also have to wonder, who was paying for these studies? Is some organization trying to gain support for their point of view with 'scientific studies showâ¦'? At any rate, I haven't expected that organic produce has significantly higher amounts of nutrition over non organic produce. I simply understand that pesticides and fungicides actually are designed to kill bugs and fungus. Why would I want to eat foods that were sprayed with any kind of agent that can kill, even if it is just a small bug? And had them repeatedly applied? And that the soil that they are growing in has had years and years of them being applied? The other reason I choose organic gardening, is because an ecological system clearly exists. Why ignore that rather than try to understand it and work with the system rather than against it? None of these studies address either of those reasons why I choose organic.

ORGANIC: CHEMISTRY: relating or belonging to the class of chemical compounds having a carbon basis; "hydrocarbons are organic compounds" GEOLOGY: being or relating to or derived from or having properties characteristic of living organisms; "organic life"; "organic growth"; "organic remains found in rock" MEDICINE: involving or affecting physiology or bodily organs; "an organic disease" GARDENING: of or relating to foodstuff grown or raised without synthetic fertilizers or pesticides or hormones; "organic eggs"; "organic vegetables"; "organic chicken" CULTURAL: simple and healthful and close to nature; "an organic lifestyle" In gardening, the definition of "synthetic" is pretty stretched (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_(food) ) and some truly nasty "natural" compounds can qualify, such as rotenone and 20% acetic acid and copper compounds. READ the labels and the MSDS of these things. "Harmless", "natural" pest controls like Bacillus thuringensis kill butterflies ... if you want butterflies you have to tolerate caterpillars. Also, some of the "certified organic" fertilizers and additives are shipped long distances, and have a big "carbon footprint". ******************* "Green" considers the environmental impact of producing and shipping and disposal of something, and does the minimum necessary to solve a problem: Maine kelp extract, green sand, or Italian dolomite powder might be fabulously organic and OMRI registered, but when shipped to Arizona they are definitely not "green" because of the shipping. The all-natural, locally produced Ironite (mined about 100 miles north of here) is a lot greener. The soil sulfur I use is a byproduct of the copper smelting operations 100 miles east of here (when they cleaned up their emissions, the found out they were collecting substances they could purify and sell for a profit!) My backyard compost is REALLY GREEN because it's converting waste that would be trucked away into fertilizer. It's not strictly organic, because I use small amounts of ammonium sulfate (by product of natural gas production and purification) to boost the nitrogen content, but it's local.

Bon, Why not just buy a bottle of liquid fish emulsion? It is a concentrate, so a bottle lasts longer than you think it will. I use it all the time. It does attract raccoons, so I don't use it near the corn. I have a hard enough time keeping them out of the corn as it is. Carol, Well, it isn't a mistake a person will make twice! In recent days, the garden and I have been circled by vultures flying overhead. It kinda makes me nervous when they do that. I always wonder if they know something I don't know. Generally though it means I've used bone meal or blood meal and their sharp sense of smell has picked up on the scent and they're looking for the dead animal that they're smelling. Because I use bone meal and blood meal, my dogs are never allowed into the veggie garden during the growing season for obvious reasons. Dawn