Britt you have distorted Kimm's statement (" If you really have gardened that many years, with a wide variety of plants, you would have had some diseases to deal with, and certainly at least some losses." - my putting part of your statement in bold). Kimm's statement "even a small part of one" does not mean "none - zero". See: http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/small%20part You have taken a statement to an extreme. In debating, there is a name for such a practice. https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#newwindow=1&q=trying+to+take+an+argument+to+the+extreme I am reproducing your conclusion here. " Kimm, you should not lie about organic gardening benefits: they are substantial, and can stand on their own. There is no need to make unsubstantiated fantastic clams." A breakdown in logic: at first you bring up the possibility of someone lying: "is a remark that either is a total lie, or indicates that you have just not tried many things. " Then you make the above conclusion statement. ==================================================== In my rose growing years, I (Henry Kuska) grew 1000 roses and I could make the same statement that Kimm made.

I'm back, not that you've gotten bad service from morph. You could not be in better hands. I'm just more hands... Yes, the standard, $25 test is what you want at Logan Labs. When nothing seems to work, then the soil test usually provides the answer. And morph is the guy to read your soil test for you. I've been organic since 2002. My back yard is in half day sun and is too dense to mow. My front is in 90% filtered shade and mows easily, but would not be considered thin - at least not mostly. This is a lot of shade in the front. I realize you are committed to organics but maybe a couple pictures will help you stay on track. I collect these things for people like you. Here's the first one. That was taken by GW member mrmumbles back in 2011 to show the effect of using alfalfa pellets on his zoysia lawn. He applied the stuff in mid May and took the picture in mid June. You can easily see the effect. Density, color, and growth are all improved dramatically. Here is another picture taken by morph of his own lawn. I don't know why he doesn't use this picture more often. Maybe because he knows I use the heck out of it. That picture was taken in 2010. He will attribute the green of his yard to soil testing and improved chemistry, but you have to give credit to his organic program, too. He also has a different variety of grass and he waters differently. But the point is...WOW AREYOUFREAKINKIDDINME! Yes, you can have the yard of the month, month after month, on an organic program. What morph does to get that effect is to do things right. The cost of his lawn is not that much different from the cost of the neighbors' dead looking lawns. It's much more a matter of doing things right than spending more money.

There is a thi8ng called Intergrated Pest Management. It basically says to inspect your garden daily for pests and see if there is another way of dealing with them, like picking off blackspotted leaves as they start. It also says is the problem big enough to need to use chemicals. I walk thru my rose garden everyday. This way I know what's going on. If I see bs starting on a plant I can pick off those leaves. if it is one plant that's worse than the others, yes, remove it. I dug up Peace for that reason. If you know you will have bs, start off the season with a good spray program and you won't have it at all. Unless it's raining all the time and you can't do it like what happened to me a few years ago! These are just some suggestions to help you.

You read the 500 pages of the NOP guidelines "several times" and you summarize it by stating, "the NOP defines the use of the term "organic" on food labels." Really!! that's it? hhmmm...let me see if I can put it in terms you can grasp...raise deer on your front lawn, shoot them and if you can register it as organic meat then you have an organic lawn... NOP is clear and concise...just follow the rules and use products that are third party approved to the standards...try OMRI or Oregon Tilth...You're right about NOP not determinite in taste or quality of the end product...it is to regulate process and inputs. If you don't use the correct fertilizers (like keep your sulfur levels less tahn 2#/acre) your deer's nutrition will suffer becuase you lawn will be a lousy crop... Incidently, organic doesn't always mean safe...there are plenty of restricted products and EPA registered pesticides that meet NOP...think QST and WYEC cultures for fungus control... However, if you cannot follow these rules then start a site for "almost organic" or "sustainable" or "natural" and that is fine. But, a rose is a rose is a rose... And if you need help with definitions it means when it is all said and done it is what it is...organic means compliance with NOP. And yes, there are associations and companies with NOP compliant programs...I can think of a company in Canada (which has more stringent guidelines because of the issue you cited with soy & corn) that has about 120 branches and CT recently passed a law that sports fields cannot use products outside NOP...and there are companies in several states that follow similar programs. And! TruGreen Chemlawn uses an organic program in Santa Barbara County in California I believe... SOUL Association in Mass also has excellent reference material... Barenburg USA has turf seed that is NOP....also selective breeding is allowed...like any open pollinated plant (thjink heirloom tomatoes) Canada legislated the use of organics because homeowners wouldn't do it on their own...it is quickly coming to that in the US if we don't promote this tact...homeowners, by far, by really far, are the largest contributors to pesticide, chemical pollution in the US. Just look at the recent decision to eliminate acenical herbicides in the US..say goodbye to Ortho Weed B Gone and Scotts Turf builder and 600 other products...all had their registrations cancelled because of MSMA, CAMA, MSMA etc... Here is a link that might be useful: EPA Decision