I like sowing in flats! I can start so much more in flat and give them the heat they need to germinate much easier by placing the entire flat under lights. Then I transplant them in bigger pots after their first set of true leaves. I think you telling your friend about using a flat first and then transplanting in paper pots was right on :) Not to mention your plants are not going to stay in the flat the whole time, just until they are big enough to transplant :) I am no pro, so I could be wrong. Either way starting with flats works for Me!

I'm in Michigan, too. I echo what the others have said. I am a fan of the aluminum pans with clear plastic lids. but I think the milk jugs are probably the most secure and time tested. Here's what I do with my foil pans: I make sure they are at least three inches deep, and that the clear top is about 1 1/2 to 2 inches high at least. I move them to shade as soon at it gets warmer- the aluminum tends to cook the roots if not. I start them in sun until about late February, then I move them to partial shade. Also, remember that foil pans need more venting as it gets warmer- just make the holes bigger. If there's condensation on the inside of the clear top, there's no need to water-- but also remember that condensation can become boiling water. foil pans do need a bit more tneding than milk jugs. I work full time too. I just do my moving around and tending on the weekends and in the early evening. When in doubt, I have learned that more shade is better. I water them thoroughly BEFORE putting in the seeds. It took me three years to fugur out that if I poked the drainiage holes, filled with soil, and then set the container in a roaster pan fullof water it would suck up the exact right amount of water in less than ten minutes. Plus, less messy for my hadns. Then I press the seeds very lightly into the moist soil. When I planted seeds to deep, they did not germinate. they may heve germinated, but they couldn't make it allthe way to the surface. Remember, the rule is no deeper that half the diameter of the seed. In my humble opinion, the freeze/thaw cycle will pull them down farther anyway, so lightly pressing is much better. I had several failures becuase I pressed seeds in too far. My first year, I made deep holes with a pencli, and buried tiny little seeds in them. later, I realized that a deep hole is usually only good for sunflower seeds, and sometimes even too much for that. Also, top watering tended to wash some seeds away or down the sides of the container. Sometimes what I thought was no germination was actually no seeds left. I stuck with perennials all the way through February. Didn't start any annuals till March or later. I had really good luck with these perennials: Black Eyed Susan Gaillardia Evening primrose (not a beautiful plant, but a great confidence booster) Daisies and several other natives. If you email me, I woudl be happy to send you a Bubble envelope full of seeds that have worked well for me here in Michigan.

The other advantage to wintersowing, besides being less expensive than buying (what pathetic selection they have available) at the nursery, and also having the space to coddle seedlings all over inside--messing with supplemental lighting, etc., and that your plants will be hardier and already hardened off, is this: your plants will also be hardier through the hotter months, and more resistant to the cold at the end of season. My wintersown tomatillo survived a pretty hearty frost last year, but the indoor-start one (yes, same seed/variety) didn't make it. However, one of the drawbacks is that, for some plants, there won't be enough head start to get big enough to get some harvest. For example, if you have longer-to-ripen tomatoes, they might not be ready to go before the first frost. Also, peppers will have a later start, etc., and something that didn't occur to me until a few days ago, is that my "120-day" okra (it's not really that long to harvest since it's a continual thing) will be so far behind the 8-ball that it might be August before we get our first okra, whereas if I have indoor or nursery starts, they are usually flowering in June. This might be particularly true if your actual growing season is shorter, like Bonnie's. The other thing to remember is that not all things are suitable for true wintersowing--basil and some herbs are a little too intolerant of the cold that if they sprouted then there was a freeze, they might not make it. However, if you're starting now, I think you're good to go on just about anything from the cold-intolerant timetable. That being said, I always start some stuff inside, and try to put it outside for as much natural sun during the day as possible, then bring it in at night until the nights are warmer. I do "backup" starts for the tomatoes that I can't live without (so then, will someone please explain to me how I have over 40 starts? Oh yeah... the SWAP!), and ALL my peppers and herbs--and certainly, the cherished okra. Also, I stupidly started some cipollini onions WAY too late (but I bought the seeds, and they'll be no good next year) inside, so we'll see if those guys turn out. Of course, Trudi D will tell you that she started wintersowing as a great experiment because she was going cabin-crazy in the deep of winter and just wanted to make some mud pies in January... (My husband now wonders, since we move our tomato containers into the garage and harvest until February, if he will ever see his wife's fingernails without any dirt under them... I'm goin' with NO)

An amazingly stuffed full priority mail bubble envelope arrived yesterday, so after dinner I sat down to dig in & giggled with delight as I pulled out so many fun things that Vina had creatively packed up & sent. She must know my mind or something because everything was perfect! _Butterfly card lavishly decorated in gold, 3 dimensions, & colorful along with friendly sentiments and a happy face! _2 recent Garden Gate magazines that make flower gardening looks so lovely & easy. I flipped through & will definitely use that tip to scarify seeds by putting them in a jar with sandpaper & shake, shake, shake! Perfect for those Sweet Peas. _an entire package of Godiva dark chocolates in an assortment of flavors. I won't tell how many I've eaten already. There's still some left. He, he. _Grow Ums Herb Garden that contained 8 coco pellets & labels along with 4 types of seeds (basil, cilantro, oregano, & parsley). Looks like fun to start them this way & I have lots of pots to make a nice display. There are 20 seeds in each packet, so there will have plenty for several pots and I can share with my daughter because she also loves the fresh herbs. _12 packets of seeds from her garden all labeled & sealed in tiny ziplocks. Not one stray seed! She sent me just what we'd love to try here. My hubby loves all the daisy type flowers like blanket flower or especially coneflowers that are big, bright or bicolored. The generous 12 she sent me were: 1. bee balm Marshall's Delight 2. Clematis Jackmani (I have several empty trellis here & just received two cedar ones from a friend who is moving in 3 weeks.) 3. Clematis Arctic Queen 4. Coreopsis Jethro Tull 5. Coneflower Ruby Giant 6. Coneflower Milkshake 7. Dianthus Siberian Blues 8. Nigella Love in a Mist all blue (I want to plant these along the row of raspberries provided they survived the storm as the trellis is down & there are tree tops & limbs on them.) 9. Gaillardia Fanfare 10. Rudbeckia Indian summer 11. Sweet Pea, everlasting (by the way someone told me these are great for improving the soil like other legumes, so plant away in new garden spaces to make way for vegetables or other perennials) 12. Yarrow Cerise Queen If all of this germinates & grows I'll have lots of plants to fill in the holes left by the storm! Thank YOU Vina for welcoming me in to the group & sending such a generous package that definitely brought me some winter cheer! Here's one of my favorite shasta daisy pics from a few years ago. Grandma gave this chicken on a stick to our daughter when she was young & she liked to surprise me with it by moving it around. She had said she tried to make the chicken look like it was standing on the daisy flower. Corrine